Monsters’ Den Geniuses: I Need Your Skills
Alright guys: Tell me about the skills in Book of Dread.
What are the best / worst skills for each class? Which are essential, and which are useless? Share your thoughts or links with me in the comments.
At the point where I’m designing the skill system for the next game, it’s useful to have as many outside perspectives as possible on this.

about 3 months ago
Warrior:
Best skills —
Shield Wall
Cleave
Pretty much all you need this guy for is to take damage since his damage output and speed are much lower then your other characters. Overwhelm is inte
Summoner:
Played for a few levels and found it very weak and uninteresting so I cant comment on the skills much
Mage:
Best Skills–
Electrical Storm. Best spell mage has by far, and what you’ll be casting 90% of the time
Freeze– good for dps on a single target and the stun chance is just gravy really
Cosmic Prison– allows you to take one opponent out of the action indefinitely, which can be very useful in some battles (for example to prevent cult members from summoning)
So-so Skills
Fireball– Basically inferior to electrical storm in almost every way, but you start out with it and it does higher damage on the one target I guess
Arcane Armor– In long fights this can be helpful to keep your mage from dieing
Invisibility– I’ve never found myself using it, but I can see how it would be useful situationally
Bad skills:
Ensorcelled blade– You dont want your mage in melee range. Period.
Power Siphon– Unecessary because of mana regeneration that you should be getting from your gear. And it isnt nearly effective enough against enemies to justify as an offensive skill
Incinerate– See Ensorcelled Blade
Flickering Flames– Monsters have way more hp then you do at high levels, so the damage this deals is worthless. Plus why would you want to cast a marginal status effect spell when you could be raining down magical fury? Easily the worst spell for the mage and one of the worst skills in the game
Barbarian
Best Skills:
Whirlwind– One of the best DPS skills in the game despite its high power cost. A staple of the class
Charge– Great for killing undefended casters in the back row. The stun chance is very nice too, one of the best skills in the class.
Ok Skills:
Pulverize/Dismember —
Great skills in longer fights against bosses and tough individual creatures. But for most mob fights you’ll want to stick to the higher dps whirlwind and charge.
Boast– Only useful situationally, but sometimes you need to hit something in the back row when there are monsters still in front. This skill essentially lets the barbarian take a ranged attack, the other stuff is meainingless
Jostle– I’ve never found myself using this because even if your barbarian gets shifted to the back row by the minotaur, he can still use boast. But I guess it might be situationally useful for some people, and it only costs 10
Bad Skills:
Reckless Fury–
Its too easy to die on the harder difficulties, and the barbarian does enough damage without using this. Plus most battles only last 2-4 turns, so this is a huge waste of time (as are most of the buffing skills in this game)
Enrage– If this were a passive it would be great, but its simply not worth spending a turn casting it when you could be doing damage instead
Intimidate– This is a mostly useless skill to start with, but the fact that it costs SEVENTY power easily makes it the worst skill of the Barbarian.
Last Stand– If your Barbarian is below 20% health usually you are doing something wrong. On hard difficulties and advanced levels, most monsters will kill you in 2-3 hits, so you wont get much of a chance to use this one
Ranger
Good Skills:
Hail of Arrows– The accuracy penalty really sucks, but this is still the rangers best damage skill against large crowds. I havent tested the numbers, but I suspect that with the appropriate accuracy bonuses this might out dps Electrical Storm and Whirlwind. High power cost is also a bit of a problem, but despite its flaws its the best opener for the ranger.
Pin– Attack that does damage, AND has 100% stun chance? Good stuff! This is basically a much much better cosmic prison
Pierce– Basically when you do not have enough power for Hail of Arrows or their are only 2 monsters left, this is your go-to skill
Ok Skills:
Hunters Prowess– Great against deep creatures if their arent enough for a Hail of Arrows or you are out of power. But against everything else it is worthless
Natures Balm– Essential in fights against the medusa, and in longer fights it is a nice skill to have. But the healing isnt significant enough to waste a turn on unless you are getting heavily poisoned
Envenomed Arrow– I think the ranger has better skills, but this one has its uses as well
Bad Skills:
Force of Nature– I’m not sure why you felt the need to put one skill that completely contradicts a classes intent in each tree. If you want a melee character there are MUCH better choices then a ranger, so there is no reason to ever, ever, ever have him equipped with a melee weapon.
Healing Lore– The healing is completely insignificant because rangers are not going to get any points in intellect The ability to cure poison might be ok, if it werent for the fact that natures balm cures poison FOR THE ENTIRE FIGHT. Basically this is a gimped version of another skill the ranger already has.
Focus– 25 power is an insignificant amount, especially in the late game when you should have plenty of regeneration (and battles are only a few turns). This is probably the most worthless skill the ranger has
Swiftness– Quickness does not really scale with levels like the other attributes– monsters get more hp and so on but their quickness stays the same, and the quickness boosts on items you get continue to increase for a while. This means that by the time you have beaten the main quest once or twice you should have no problems out-quicking monsters except on your warrior, which makes this skill irrellevent. However at low levels it can be nice
about 3 months ago
Warrior:
Power Attack- Very useful
Bloodlust- Very useful
Cleave- Very useful
Resolve- Occasionally useful
Overwhelm- Useful if outfitted with speed items, but mana cost is high.
Execute- Never used
Adrenaline- Never used, maybe play style
Shield Wall- Never used
Inspire- Never used, always felt better dishing out damage.
Cleric:
Heal: Very useful
Heal All: Very useful
Smite: Very useful
Fervor: Very useful
Holy light: Useful
Purify: Useful
Litany of Pain: Useful
Revive: could be useful but the revived character usually dies just after being revived.
Shield of Faith: Never found a use for it.
Anoint: Could be useful but as a plate armour class I always kept my cleric in front. If there was a sub class that could only use cloth, Anoint would become useful.
Ranger
Pierce- Very useful
Envenomed Arrow- Very useful
Pin- Very useful
Hail of arrows- Very useful
Healing lore- Occasionally useful
Nature’s balm- Occasionally useful
Swiftness- Never used, could be play style
Hunters Prowess- Very useful for creatures
Force of Nature- Never use as my ranger always has a bow.
Mage
Fireball- Very useful
Electrical Storm- Very useful
Cosmic prison- Very useful
Freeze: Sometimes useful for that extra edge, stun seems more rare than 25%
Ensorcelled Blade- Never use as my mage always has a staff
Incinerate- Never use as mage is always in back
Arcane armour- Never use, mage always in back
Power Siphon- Generally don’t use, would be more useful if you could target a specific monster.
Flickering flames- Never use
Invisibility- Never use
Maybe I should try the mage in front… just doesn’t seem intuitive.
Suggestions:
Warrior: Charge- 25% damage to 1 in front row to cause 100% damage to 1 in back row, uses 60 power.
Cleric: Give the Revive spell a little more HP.
Mage: Charm- 75% chance to cause a monster to attack one of their own 1 turn.
Negate magic- 50% (or maybe slighty less) chance to negate all magic for 1 turn.
Cleric- Second class (Priest) that has slightly better healing abilities, but must wear cloth. Might make those censors useful. AND OR, another healer class option so the Cleric didn’t seem so necessary.
about 3 months ago
I somewhat surprised many folks don’t seem to like Execute much. For me it was my fav skills. Especially if you have two warriors in a party; being able to execute two monsters in the first round is huge.
I think it is sort of a shows how flexible, deep and good Monster’s Den is that it many of us have found pretty different ways of playing it.
about 3 months ago
Well, i don’t have experience with all skills yet, so i just list my favorites:
Ensorcelled Blade (Mage)
The best way to instantly remove those annoying Crossbowmen, i allways rely on a Warrior with damage reduction above 80%, therefore everything that ignores armor has to be killed first. You don’t even need to waste statpoints on strength. I use them for Endurance with every character. Make sure you use unerring swords or ocsbane and whatever gloves of accuracy. Bone Ring and minotaur horns work well too.
Execute (Warrior)
This one is great, if yo have high lethality and high power regeneration. Ring of boundless Energy is a must too. Too bad it doesn’t use the power better though, for example, if you have 60% lethality (i really got that high), it shouldn’t use more than 40 power for this move.
Adrenaline and Natures Balm. (Warrior and Ranger)
This ones let you win against Gorgon and Minotaur almost by default, because they can’t beat the Warrior anymore, if he has high has high defense and immunity against poison and stun. If the damage reduction isn’t high enough yet, use some vampiric effects and make sure, that the warrior also has Resolve.
The rest of the party will die though, so let them escape, if you care about the score. (character deaths reduce your rating, escapes do not)
Defiance (Warrior)
Makes the Warrior almost invincible, if you have 30+ power regeneration. Very cool, if you fight against three Wraiths, hehehe.
Hail of Arrows (Ranger)
Not such a great move, since i play with only one Ranger, but still nice, if i couldn’t find unerring swords for a long time, and my mages can’t instantly kill back row characters anymore.
Shield Wall (Warrior)
This one is used best with two warriors, because you need only 20 power regeneration for a permanent shield wall, if one shields, while the other one passes. 30 are better though, because the not shielding warrior can also attack.
I always use two warriors in survival mode (got to wave 176), but since i need two mages and a ranger in normal mode, i’m stuck with only one warrior.
Armor Proficiency (Warrior)
A very great skill to keep your defence above 80%
Poisoncraft (Rogue)
A nice skill, when your Rogue does high damage, but i don’t use Rogues anymore, due to the lack of area attacks.
Elusiveness (Rogue)
Too bad this one can’t be raised to 100%, it would make you invincible, along with Defiance. Only moves that stop your power regeneration could break this. But it’s still a very good defense, just make sure your warrior can escape instantly, when the rogue is killed.
Intimidate (Barbarian)
I don’t know, how this works, i was too lazy to play with a barbarian yet, but in case this was a 100% Elusiveness stuff, it could be insanely useful for the survival mode.
about 3 months ago
I didn’t play monster’s den a long time. In my opinion there are lots skills useful but depends on what play style a player wants.
For example, I like speed run in endless dungeon, so any skill that isn’t god-like-one-hit-kill-whole-group-enemy-in-one-turn I don’t use it because it is useless. And what present it will be electrical storm and hide+sneak attack. Some prefer hail of arrows.
In the mean time I also like survival mode, and that becomes totally different situation which if any skill doesn’t help me survive longer I won’t use it. This means all three skills above is abandoned and replaced by defensive skills.
For example, revive is a must, call soul is excellent, defiance is uber useful. Which none of these are practical in the dungeon mode.
So, as you said you want to know what skill is useful and what is not, it will depend on what mode. The more different goals your game have the more different skills will be useful.
I know this seems vague, but this is what I know so far. there is no really bad skill but only wrong skill in wrong situation.
about 3 months ago
BTW.
Sometimes I want to remove basic attack because I have more than 5 unique skills, which means 6 to use. Since I can’t remove that everyone’s skill, I am forced to choose normal attack in my skill list. I don’t see the reason why this skill is always sitting there.
about 3 months ago
A little late on this I guess, but I couldn’t resist putting my opinions in on this.
Warrior: In a dungeon crawl these make for a great shield wall, but other than that, I don’t really like the class. I find clerics make for a better damage absorber, and barbarians make a better front line attack. It’s not one I use as a general rule, but here are my opinions on the attacks anyway.
Power attack – The attack boost is not worth the cost of power. I think I’ve used this attack all of once. 1/10
Defiance – While this attack is annoying when an enemy uses it, because I don’t like to have to sit around waiting to be able to attack them, it’s never one that actually seems to have any effect on the battle to me. If I had this skill on a mage, or a barbarian, I might like it, as a way to avoid losing them early in a fight when they’re already beaten up. But on a warrior? with so much armour, by the time they’re that badly injured, the rest of the party is already dead. It just wastes a turn. 1/10
Cleave – As warrior skills go, this one isn’t too bad. I’m gonna be honest, I like area attacks. Trouble is, barbarians have whirlwind. An equivalent attack which is better, and costs less, as I recall. It makes this skill kinda redundant. 5/10
Adrenaline – I guess it’s a nice little attack for long boss battles, legendary monsters, or FoT (Fall of Tellonous), but for general purpose combat, I don’t use it. There’s very little that stuns you anyway, and battles are too short to use it regularly. Plus, you can only use it on your warrior, which instantly makes the damage bonus pretty pointless. 5/10
Resolve – I don’t think I’ve ever used it. I’m old school, I believe a party needs a cleric to function properly anyway, so it’s just useless to me. 0/10
Shield wall – Probably the best attack a warrior has. The only problem being the high power cost. If I could guarantee on being able to use it for, say, five rounds running, I’m sure I’d love it. But at best you can use it twice, then your warrior has to rest. Plus, it’s rubbish against so many enemies, who have area attacks. 6/10
Inspire – If I’m using a warrior in a FoT match, I like this attack, but otherwise, rounds don’t last long enough for it to be useful. Simple as. 5/10
Execute – I try and avoid using potions as much as possible, so I find this to be useless. If it worked against bosses or legendary creatures, I would love it, but their insta-kill immunity makes this basically a pointless attack for me. 1/10
Bloodlust – This is a must have for warriors. Like I said, I like to save my potions, so being able to regenerate a little extra power near the end of battles is useful for me. The only problem being that I maybe use this attack twice in a battle against six opponents, if I’m lucky. A lot of the time, I don’t get to use it at all. 6/10
Overwhelm – I don’t really think much of it. I mean, if you have a rogue in the party, using this after a legendary monster has been crippled can be useful. But the power cost means you only really get to use it once anyway. Even in a boss fight, I don’t really feel it has any use. It’s a skill for one specific instance. 3/10
Leadership – At high levels this rivals shield wall as a warriors most useful skill, but the probability is too low to be any use until eleven levels of upgrading, minimum. 6/10
Armour proficiency – A must have skill for warriors. It becomes useful at around level five, which is unusual for passive skills. 8/10
Cleric: I mentioned already, but clerics are essential to any party. I think what I like about them most is that they can be diverse. On the one hand, you can make a great shield wall with them, while alternatively you can dress them in light armour with high speed and power, stick them to the back rows and have a great ranged unit. Oh, also, they heal? Pretty neat. I’ve played games with groups made up of only clerics, and had no problems, other than the lack of diversity with weapons they experience.
Heal – Useful starting ability, and later when you have a good level of benediction it’s good in long battles. Really useful in FoT for removing curses and damage reduction, but only with reasonable levels of benediction. Sometimes it can still be quicker to kill a team member, then revive them instead though. I think it’s the only attack where I find it useful at the beginning and end of the game, but kinda rubbish in the middle. 7/10
Smite – Great attack for a backrow cleric, especially against undead. But useless for the more common front line cleric. I have mixed feelings about it, I suppose. 5/10
Holy light – Must have against the undead, and always useful against larger groups. When fighting legendary monsters, if there’s no rogue in the party, this can be useful as a starting move for a cleric too. In smaller battles it’s dead weight, I suppose. Also, it bugs me when I have an attack I use once in a battle taking up an inventory space. 8/10
Heal all – I think this is probably my favourite cleric ability. The only thing that bothers me about it is that you can’t get benediction with it. But apart from that, I can’t fault it. 9/10
Anoint – I don’t really use this one much. I mean, I can see how it could be useful, it’s just not for me. If I have a back row cleric that’s faster than a mage I have, it’s makes lightning storm a first turn killer, but other than that, it’s not great. 5/10
Revive – I don’t really have a habit of losing team members. On the rare occasions I do, I have more than enough revive potions to bring them back. In the really late game Legendary Monster battles, I’ll occasionally equip this attack just as a safeguard, and I consider it an essential for FoT (I always have at least two characters that can undo death in my party for that mode), but as a general rule, if you’re letting your team members die during battle and can’t wait until after the battle to bring them back, you’re really doing something wrong.
Litany of pain – Great on a back row cleric, but useless on the front row. I mean, it’s a good area attack, but you want your area attacks landed straight away to soften up the enemy, before you pick them off. With a heavily armoured cleric, by the time it reaches their turn either half your opponents are dead, or your guys need some serious healing. It bugs me a little that it doesn’t get wrath, and that it has no bonus damage to undead, too. 5/10
Purify – I just have no use for this attack. I mean, if I’m healing poison I just use heal or heal all. And if you’re getting enough party members cursed for this to be better than benediction, for gods’ sake, get a mage. 1/10
Shield of faith – I’ve only ever used this on clerics with really low intelligence and really high endurance, and even then only when there was another cleric in the party. Usually, it just makes more sense to heal yourself. 1/10
Fervour – I can take it or leave it. Sure, sometimes it’s nice to deal a little extra damage from the front rows. Kinda pricey though. Maybe if it did extra damage to undead I’d like it more. 4/10
Wrath – Great for a back row cleric, but it’s pretty much useless for the first ten levels. 7/10
Benediction – A must have for FoT, and for any longer battles. If you’re using it in shorter battles though, seriously think about restructuring your party. 8/10
Mage: I almost always have a mage in the party. Generally, with pretty awesome power regeneration. One of my favourite units.
Freeze – I don’t use this much at the beginning of the game, but later it can be useful once you have enough power regeneration to make it effectively free. Also, it’s good once you work your stun up a little. It’s a generally good attack. 7/10
Fireball – The main advantage of this attack is that, for an area attack, it’s cheap. The main disadvantage is that nine times out of then, I can’t use it to its’ full potential without frying my own guys. It has its’ place, I guess, and it makes a good starting ability. 6/10
Electrical storm – I noticed I’m not the only person that likes this one. Let’s face it, it’s the most powerful attack in the game, when used right. But at the same time, it’s one you need to be tactical with. There’s been many a time when I’ve been up against a party of four, and I’ve spent ten minutes debating whether I wanted to open with that attack and have to refill my stamina somehow, or save my stamina at the risk of taking heavier damage. I think the fact that I can say that about the best attack in the game really shows that nothing is overpowered. 9/10
Cosmic Prison – I can see why people might like this, but it’s not for me. Why would I want to armour my opponents? That’s crazy talk. 0/10
Invisibility – Again, I can see how this could be useful, but it’s not for me. I tend to take care of my mages too much to need it. 0/10
Arcane Armour – In long battles, and in FoT, this is great. For general use, not so much. If I have a conjurer in the party, I don’t use it. Mostly I just get this late in the game. 4/10
Flickering Flames – I don’t use this in a dungeon crawl. Ever. I do in FoT though. It just gives that extra kick. Especially against wraiths. Although I generally take them out with a blast of magic before that becomes a problem. Still, it’s saved my ass on more than one occasion. Damage reflect works best on gargoyles, but I never get to use this against them because they’re not in FoT, and in dungeon crawls it would use up four turns to guarantee them attacking someone with it on, by which point the battle’s basically over anyway. 5/10
Ensorcelled blade – Very occasionally, I’ll start a new game with an unusual selection of characters just for shits and giggles. When I do, generally one of the things I do is arm a mage with a sword and give them this attack. These games usually last until around the third floor, when I get bored with how useless a mage is with a sword. I’m sorry, in theory it could be really good, but in practice, this attack takes too much power. If it was cheap, it would make a front line mage a really fun thing, but let’s face it, it’s nothing other than a risky damage multiplier. 0/10
Incinerate – Yeah, see, now, I like the whole cheap double damage thing, but if I’m putting my mage on the front line, I want to see something a bit more interesting than this. Give it a 50% lethality or some interesting effect, and we’ll talk. 0/10
Power siphon – I can get why this may be less popular, but I love it. But then again, I like it because of my playing style; Once I’ve only a single opponent left, I use power siphon to keep their attacks weak while healing and/or resting my team mates, so I don’t have to worry about low levels in the next fight. Also, when you’re faced with multiple neophites, it’s a good way of stopping them from summoning (they require 100% energy to summon). Its’ only problem is the cost. If you have enough power to use it, you don’t need it, except to keep your opponents’ power low. 9/10
Spell mastery – I love this skill, but it hates me. It only ever kicks in when I use low cost attacks, or right at the end of a battle, right before I use a healing spot. It’s going to get my recommendation, but could we make it a little less of a jerk next time? 9/10
Shielding – I like not taking damage and all, but with my mages, I find my biggest problem is keeping their energy levels up, so I generally don’t get this ’till really late in the game. 4/10
Ranger: I have really mixed feelings about rangers. On the one hand, they have some attacks I love, on the other hand, they have some attacks which I’ve never used.
Pierce – It’s a great attack to start out with, but it quickly becomes redundant. The main problem is that it really relies on your enemies lining up, which doesn’t happen much in small groups, and in larger groups I prefer hail of arrows. 4/10
Natures balm – Great for use in FoT and boss battles, but other than that, I don’t really use it. If you want to go really far in FoT, the best thing you can do is get a ranger, put all your points into intelligence, and give everyone a blast of that right from the beginning. It’s more important than bringing people back from the dead. 5/10
Healing Lore – Remember I mentioned making a party of unusually positioned characters? Yeah, I use a ranger as a front row healer. Yeah, they aren’t very good. The healing effect is just too weak. It’s useful to have a spare healer in the later game just in case, but I really don’t use it much. 2/10
Hunters’ prowess – Against creatures of the deep, this is a great attack. If you’ve got bonuses to lethality, it’s also pretty good. Nine times out of ten? I don’t use it. It’s better than most attacks that are essentially low damage enhancement, but none of them are awfully good. 4/10
Hail of arrows – Essential against large groups, or in FoT for rangers. As area attacks go though? It’s not great. It costs as much as electrical storm, and basically has a 66.5% accuracy. It does have the advantage of effectively guaranteeing to do some damage to everyone (there’s an 11.2225% chance of missing both shots on a target, if my math is right), but I don’t recall there ever being a time when that was a useful trait. 8/10
Pin – Ranged attack, with 100% chance to stun and does damage? Love it. On the other hand, you’re better of equipping a rogue with a ranged weapon and having them use cripple. It does more damage, and reduces your opponents speed to zero. Still, pin is a pretty damned good attack, if slightly overpriced (I would drop the cost back to 35 power, personally). 8/10
Force of nature – As with healing lore, this is good if you want to make an unusual party for shits and giggles, but otherwise, it’s pretty useless. Seeing as there’s four ranger skills that require a ranged weapon, all of which are reasonably good attacks, and only the one that requires a melee weapon, it’s not really worth it. Although if you could change between weapons mid battle, it may become useful against a minotaur. As is though, it’s only really useful against opponents with obscenely high armour; Gargoyles and wraiths, and nothing else as I recall. 3/10
Envenomed Arrow – It’s an okay attack if you have a ranger anyway, but when compared to the rogues’ poison attack it seems kinda useless. I mean, it costs more power, and can only be used with ranged weapons. Plus, rogues get the additional passive poisoning ability. 7/10
Focus – I don’t really use this, on accounts of how I try and rest up at the end of each battle, so I always have full power bars at the beginning of the next fight anyway. I can see how it could be useful if you have low power regeneration and are in a long battle, I just don’t let myself get into a position where that’s a problem. 2/10
Swiftness – I just have no use for this. Speed is really useful on the first round of a fight, but after that becomes unimportant in my eyes. It’s little use in FoT too, as battles are just as likely to start with people with middling or low speed, due to its’ run on nature. If speed also had an effect on how often you were to attack, this would make it an attack worth using. But as a general rule, I don’t want to waste an attack making me attack sooner. 1/10
Creature Lore – I adore this attack. It’s the one thing that makes hail of arrows really worth it, you can take an opponent of six and instantly make them all as weak as kittens, once you have this cranked right up. I always forget that it works, and it’s always a lovely surprise when I see the words flash across the screen. 9/10
Vitality – Until it’s really high it’s not much use, but once you’ve got it up it really makes those more difficult dungeons feel a lot safer. 7/10
Rogue: I’m not sure why I like the rogue so much, but I rarely make a party without one. Which is unusual, because apart from that, I tend far more towards characters with area attacks. I guess it’s just nice to know that, while you have people softening up the enemy, you’ve also got someone that can finish them off quickly.
Poison – It’s cheap, and effectively doubles the effect of your attack. And with longer battles, it just keeps going. The only real problem I have with it, apart from the obvious annoyance that it isn’t an area attack, is that being poison instead of a simple improved attack is that I can attack someone on the front row, poison them to death, but still not be able to attack someone on the back row until they take a turn. Which, is the way it should work, and one of those limitations that makes the game challenging. It just drives me crazy. 8/10
Pierce defenses – It’s useful against bosses and gargoyles because of the armour piercing, but for general purpose I don’t really use it. You get a better result from poisoning, even on enemies with fairly high poison resistance. It’s a good, cheap attack for use against long bosses with heavy armour though. 8/10
Sneak attack – Same problem as before with these simple damage multipliers, the damage doesn’t justify the power usage. 0/10
Flash powder – I’ve never got such a good blinding effect off anything else, so i tend to use this going up against legendary monsters and any bosses with really good accuracy. The lack of damage done is enough to put me off using it for general purpose though, although if I’m fighting greenskins, I’ll often equip it just to make doubley sure I can heal up during the end fight. Greenskins have terrible accuracy, especially savages. This reduces their accuracy to 15%, which makes me feel pretty safe. 7/10
Create opening – This is basically a damage multiplier, with a lower chance of hitting. If you compare it to poison, even without increasing your intelligence, poison with do the same damage as your weapon again from poison after a couple of levels, so you get a 95% chance of scoring that damage. This does, in effect, around 175% of the damage of a regular attack (obviously this assumes your allies attacks average the same as yours, although actually rogues have a pretty high attack when they use a dagger), with a 90.25% chance of hitting. Plus another 4.75% chance to do regular damage. So basically, it’s gonna do less damage, and cost more power. You are hedging your bets on your other characters doing more regular attack damage than you can manage. Which, for a character who relies on simple attacks like that, is not what you want to be doing.1/10
Hide – I suppose it is logically speaking a useful attack, but I’ve just never really got into it. I suppose I just prefer to spread the damage between my characters and not show favouritism. 7/10
sap strength – I like this against legendary monsters, and it comes in handy against cultists sometimes, but it’s not one of my favourites. It just costs too much. 6/10
Thiefs’ luck – Any fight which is gonna last a long time, this is a must have. FoT is much less frustrating if you have this, too. Usually though, it’s quicker just to go straight for it. 5/10
Coup de grace – I like the idea of this attack, but I’ve honestly never had a chance to use it. Maybe if I focused more on getting stunning attacks or something. But whatever. 0/10
Cripple – Essential for rogues. Slows, stuns, and does damage too. Plus, it’s cheap. Always a good sign. Especially good on a rogue, seeing as they generally go first out of everything, it gives you the chance to remove a really dangerous opponent before they have a chance to attack. 9/10
Poisoncraft – Love it. It seems useful at whatever level, whether it’s just pushing that damage up just enough to kill off that greebler you can’t quite kill in one hit, or tearing holes in a legendary creature at higher levels. 9/10
Elusiveness – See hide. 0/10
Barbarian: I find barbarians to be the best balanced unit. Strong attacks (the strongest, in a lot of instances), reasonable area attacks, reasonable speed, medium armour, they’re really useful.
Reckless fury – This attack is basically useless. The drop in armour is far too great, unless you’re using armour enhancing skills or potions. It’s certainly not worth losing a turn to set up. 1/10
Charge – One of the few attacks that makes where you position your characters truly important, but one of my favourites. It just bugs me that it has the stunning effect, it always ends up completely wasted; I use the attack like an execution most of the time. 9/10
Dismember – Great against Legendary Monsters with really high attacks, but otherwise I don’t really care for it. I don’t even use it. I prefer pulverise. 6/10
Pulverise – I like this attack against legendary monsters, and as a slightly better regula attack, but it costs too much. 7/10
Jostle – I can see why it would be useful, but for it to be useful you’d really need an extra turn immediately afterwards. 1/10
Boast – Love boast. It’s effectively a cheap ranged attack. the speed reduction can be a nice sweetener too. 9/10
Whirlwind – Without a doubt, my favourite thing about barbarians. It’s a decent area attack, although it does always strike me as odd that it costs more than electrical storm, despite hitting less targets and doing less damage to some. I figured this was to make up for the fact that, as a barbarians attack is bound to be higher due to the use of the greataxe, it would therefore do more damage and thus cost more. I guess this is true. When I use electrical storm, it weakens everyone up, but when I use whirlwind it always kills at least two enemies. Still, it’s pretty pricey (the only attacks that cost more are revive, summon soul and execute). 9/10
Enrage – I guess this makes up for the large cost of the barbarians attacks, but I’m not a fan. You’re better off flooding your opponents with weak regular attacks until you’ve built up enough power again. 1/10
Intimidate – Like I said before, I don’t like to show favouritism. Besides, it seems rather contradictory, considering that other abilities the barbarian has rely on it taking damage. 0/10
Last stand – While I think this would be a great attack for a roleplay, I’ve never been in a position where this seemed useful. Usually, if I’ve reached that low health, I am first of all running low on power, and second of all fighting something with insta-kill immunity. Which basically makes this an expensive damage multiplier. 1/10
Brutality – It’s basically just a passive damage multiplier that requires a whole lot of upgrading to be any use. I mean, you have to wait twenty-five levels for it to give you what is effectively an extra 25% damage to each attack. Sure, you kind of expect it to be fairly low from a passive enhancement, but that seems like a lot to me. Still, it comes in handy a lot in later levels. 7/10
Vengeance – Like brutality, only I personally find it to be more powerful. I mean, they only really kick in against really tough enemies, in which case, chances are I’m taking damage every turn, often more than once. Which means at its’ worst, I’m effectively gaining an extra 22.5% damage on average, but I’m usually exceeding that due to the extra chance of getting vengeance from the extra attacks. 8/10
Conjurer: So I’m gonna be honest. In a dungeon crawl, conjurers are useless. On the otherhand, FoT, they are incredible. The main problem they face in a dungeon crawl is that summonings don’t last longer than one battle. As such, while they’re useful when pitted against a really powerful enemy, most of the time they’re just dead weight. FoT though, your summonings last forever, making a conjurer unexpendable.
Dire wolf – They’re over-priced, and truly, truly useless. They seem to be particularly vulnerable to poison from my experience, meaning that the minute you come up against a shaman, lich, or similar spell caster, they’re instantly worthless. Also useless against deep creatures for the same reason. 1/10
Wall of shadows – If they were cheaper, I’d think they were great. Nothing better than being able to curse your enemies, remove curses, and draw fire from your valued soldiers at the same time. I wouldn’t use them unless the price was severely dropped though. I’m thinking somewhere in the region of 10 power each. 2/10
Manasprite/bloodsprite – In theory they’re great, but I just don’t see it being useful unless there’s more than six spaces. In a small fight, they’re effectively a one shot wonder, and in a large one, they just take too long to ‘reload’ to be any use singularly. I mean, I suppose I could kill them after each use, but that just seems like I’m wasting a unit I could be using for attacking (my conjurer, duh). 1/10
Wargolem – This is the only summoning I actually consider useful. They actually have enough health to last a few turns on their own, and their attack is usable. I don’t use their other ability, ever. It seems like a waist to me, when I could be using them as an expendable form of attack. Beef them up a bit with Eldritch Aegis and a rangers’ natures’ balm, and you have a fairly self-sufficient little soldier right there. 5/10
Vortex – The trouble with vortex is that it doesn’t do nearly enough damage. It’s little better than a regular attack.
…
Actually, that’s not the only trouble with it.
The displacement it causes is almost pointless. Sure, it can spare one of your more injured members some damage on occasion, but its’ most obvious use, knocking front row soldiers to the back rows, thus forcing them to cease attacking, doesn’t work. I’ve never come across a single enemy that worked on, much to my utter disgust. Further more, it then stops me from attacking them with melee weapons, because there’s a vortex in front of them. With a name like vortex, I was expecting an attack that would cost all my power, and probably some of my life, but would rip shreads out of multiple enemies. Or an attack similar to last stand, that could only be used at low health, but would give you an insta-kill on all the enemies infront of you (with the obvious exception of those with insta-kill immunity). In actual fact, it’s just a really small damage multiplier against crowded enemies, and a liability when used wrong. This was the only part of the game that I felt truly disappointed with (apart from the fact that the campaigns weren’t longer. But I would have felt that way if they went on for a hundred levels). 0/10
Banish – A must have against cultists. Having an inexpensive way to instantly kill an enemy is amazing, no question. It just annoys me slightly that I have no use for it against anyone else. Infact, there’s only two units in the entire game that cause need for it. 8/10
Refresh energies – Nine times out of ten, once my conjurer has summoned some creatures, I don’t have a lot for him to spend his power on. Eldritch Aegis is kinda one of those things that you get once, and vortex is useless. Other than that, your skills are mostly summoning different creatures. Banish can only be used in specific and rare circumstances, as can be said for call soul. All that leaves is your regular attack. As such, I feel bad, leaving them with so much power. Unfortunately, there’s no way to transfer this power, which I would love to do with them, so I often end up making the clerics’ job easier and healing up the summonings simply so I’m not wasting the power I’m generating. The main benefit being, it removes curses. Without this skill, you’re better off banishing your own summonings, and re-summoning them straight after when they get cursed. It bugs me that this can’t be used on other allies though. As I said before, I would love for a way to give my allies extra power. 8/10
Eldritch Aegis – Of everything a conjurer has, this is probably the most useful in a dungeon crawl. Mainly, because I’m not a big fan of heavy armour, so a 15% boost right at the beginning makes a lot of difference to me. But really its’ best use, like with every other skill a conjurer has, is in FoT. Use it once, then you don’t have to use it again until someone dies. We’re talking a good fifty rounds there, no trouble, if you play well. I would probably think this was good enough to use in a dungeon crawl regularly, maybe enough to make a conjurer a regular member of my party, if we were looking at a larger armour buff. Really, I’m thinking in the area of 25% upwards to even consider it. 9/10
Call soul – Like with revive, if you’re using this in a regular dungeon crawl, you’re doing something wrong. In FoT though, it’s vital. Personally, I prefer it to revive, on the basis that, when I lose a character, it’s generally in the heat of battle. I want them back instantly, but with revive, the low health they have means you lose them again before you get a chance to heal them up. With call soul, sure, they’re stuck on regular attacks for a few turns, but after that, but at least they’re straight back into the Fight, right when I need them most. 7/10
Augment strength – No matter what I do, my summonings seem to have rubbish attacks. It has occurred to me that it’s possible their strength is linked to the summoners’ strength, but I don’t think the reason is particularly important. The point is, even with augmented strength, they’re weak as kittens. Kittens with leukemia. In a wet burlap sack. Which you drowned them in. After they were miscarried. Then dropped in a shreader. Then spread on toast and served to the vicar when he came round for tea last Sunday. Why would you even want to feed a holy man kittens, you sick, perverted person?
Sorry, I’m digressing. The point is, even with this whacked up full, Wargolems can’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Sure, if you’ve got some ability points you’re not using, this is as good a place to dump them as any. Just don’t go putting your hopes in it. 4/10
Augment health – Okay, so I like Wargolems, which probably suggests to you that I like a good expendable shield wall. Guess what! You’re right. And what could be more useful for a shield wall than a bunch of bonus health? Once you have Wargolems, banish, refresh energies, Eldritch Aegis and Call soul, this is what you want to start putting points in. 8/10
Okay, so that should give you an idea of what I think of each attack. Just as a last little bonus, I’ll give you the lineups I’ve found most successful, just so you can see how I’m using them, and get an idea of what kind of strategy each attack suits.
FoT lineup – I like this more than the dungeon crawl, because of its’ simplicity. It’s just pure fighting, no complex decisions about whether it’s better to have 10 poison or 10 regular damage or 10% stun or anything like that. As such, I’ve played it a lot, and think I have the lineup pretty well down to the ground. So, basically, this is how it goes:
One conjurer – Like I said, this is where they really shine, because they give you a full garrison, beef up your armour a bit, and they bring people back to life. With full health. Having banish on standby is quite useful, too. I arm them up with Wargolem, refresh energies, banish, Eldritch Aegis, call soul and as many levels of augment health as I can. Basically the strategy is to summon a couple of wargolems, then slap armour on everyone. After that, you can chill out, refresh some energies occasionally, replace war golems where you need to, call souls and re-summon occasionally, basically it’s a chilled out, simple shooting-fest for most of the battle. Nice simple class to work with.
One Ranger – The trick to FoT is to keep your health going up as much as possible. Well, one of them, anyway. Basically, my ranger gets equipped with Pierce, Natures’ Balm, Hail of Arrows and Pin. Then stick the rest in Creature Law. The technique is to slap Natures’ Balm on everyone, then rest up, using Hail of Arrows to weaken large groups, Pin to avoid damage from faster enemies, an Pierce where-ever you can, and rest in between. Focus on their intelligence, and you can get a really good heal going, which is really useful. Basically, they’re mostly there for the poison resistance. I feel a little bad for them sometimes.
One Cleric – Like I said, no group should be without one. Especially if you’re going to be fighting wave after wave of enemies without a break to heal up between. I equip them with Heal, Smite, Holy Light, Heal All, Revive, and the rest goes to Benediction. Use them to blind the opponent first, then heal up people as needed. With smite as a back up attack, just in case things get really ugly. Curses should be something to focus on removing, minor wounds will be taken care of by health regen.
One Mage – This is where most of my damage is done, everything else is really just spreading the damage out between my other characters. The mage gets Freeze, Fire Ball, Electrical Storm, Power Siphon, Flickering Flame and a bunch of Spell Mastery. I use him to fill everyone with flickering flames, then blast my enemies with an Electrical Storm. Once they’re down, use power siphon to keep them weak while everybody heals up, then finally let them rest while I everyone else finished off the enemy, ready to start the cycle again. The other attacks are really just in case of a change of plan.
And that’s the grand master plan. Really simple, and it seems to work for a hundred levels, no problem. I rarely have time to make it much further than that, but I’ve never come across a point where this technique seems to run out of steam. I forget who said about Woody Gutherie that anyone can make something complex, but it takes a genius to make something simple. But it’s a philosophy I run by.
Dungeon crawl lineup – Both campaign modes and the infinite mode I lump under the one area here. It would be far too complex to tell you everything I do here, so I’m just gonna give you the classes I use, and you can be all smart and smug and work out the majority of the technique from everything above.
Lineup one: Barbarian, Cleric, Mage, Rogue. This is my favourite, and most successful lineup by far.
Lineup two: Four Clerics. This is fun if you balance them well, and you can do some serious damage to the undead. Has a slight flaw with ranged attacks, as they cost a lot of power. Clerics tend to be a little too stretched in a well balanced group, but this gives them the chance to specialise, letting them fulfill so much more potential. The conversations they have between floors is really boring and preachy though.
Lineup three: Warrior, Ranger, Mage, Cleric. Basically a variation on the first lineup. It doesn’t work so well, in my opinion, but may work better for someone else. Warriors aren’t so well balance as barbarians.
Lineup four: Warrior, Ranger, Mage, Rogue. This is the lineup I use when I’m doing whacky stuff generally. Warrior with a crossbow, Mage with a sword, Ranger with a sword, and Rogue with a long bow. I think. My memory isn’t great. It’s a rubbish lineup anyway, but it can be kinda funny. It’s also useful to stretch yourself and use things in weird ways sometimes. I’ll also occasionally swap out the rogue for a Cleric, and use them as a ranged unit. Or swap someone out for a conjurer.
There you go. All fun there. I think that’s about all I use. Hope some of that was useful.
about 3 months ago
I usually played with the “hard” difficulty (150% multiplier) and “tactical” mode (50% multiplier). Not having power regen is not really a problem in the later levels (I got to level 130 or something before I got bored). Power regeneration comes in the form of items (hydraskin cloak, orb of replenishment, signet of demonslayer, ring of boundless energy).
The trick is simply being able to kill or disable every opposing monster on the first turn. What usually happens is, after the first round of attacks from my group, at most one or two monsters are left alive, and those are blinded. During boss fights, 1 or 2 get killed and everybody else gets blinded/stunned on the first turn, and then it’s a cakewalk.
I’ve got warrior, cleric, rogue, ranger.
Kill:
Everybody has pretty good lethality, from 15-40%.
Warrior’s got “Execute” for those precision kills. I think he currently has a Hydra’s tooth for lethality.
The Ranger’s “Hunter’s Prowess” is pretty good. I think I also upped his accuracy to 140% to better take advantage of the sweet “Force of Nature” skill, which ignores armor and does amazing damage with a spear.
The Rogue’s “Create Opening” creates another chance for those awesome kill/stun effects to come into play. Weapon-wise, either “pestilence” or “blood harvester” are good, since the former is almost a guaranteed 1-round kill and the latter almost guarantees survival.
Omega helm rocks. High five rocks. Very nimble gloves rock. The “Assassin’s set” rocks. (all give lethality)
Disable:
Everyone’s got pretty good stun from equipment, warrior especially (head of the gorgon). Don’t even need to use skills. Greaves of the Dwarf King. Quicksilver boots.
There are item combinations that allow the cleric to achieve something like 105% blind, good even for legendary monsters. With the right items, everyone else can achieve 45-65 blind without sacrificing too much damage. This makes a HUGE difference in survivability.
Other:
Orbs of protection rock. Orbs of toxicity rock.
Vampirism rocks (7% on my warrior, at least 14% on everyone else).
I usually try for 50-80% resistance to both poison and stun in each of my heroes, so that there’s a good chance 2 or more of them will always make it through a round.
What sucks (don’t keep up with the advancement in levels):
damage reflection
health regen
strength/endurance bonuses
I’ve uploaded my .sol files if you want to take a look at my setup. Please don’t be alarmed at the heinous number of excellent items – I discovered a nice little item duplication trick that made life a little nicer. The previous comments are still valid without this trick – the game just becomes very easy instead of very very easy.
http://www.2shared.com/file/OkWYhV_X/117_final.html
about 3 months ago
Just my two cents, but I really love to have a Conjuror in my party for the crawl. I was surprised that more people do not seem to like Conjuror as much as I do. I may use it to replace Cleric, or more often, Mage.
I feel that this class has a great deal of diversity, and allows for more types of party configurations. Having more bodies to take damage is very helpful, as I prefer the medium armor classes. Also, not losing an attack for a heal is attractive.
I also very much like the Cleric’s Anoint. Stack that with the Rogue’s Pierce Defenses, and see armored enemies fall!
Also, the Rogue’s Sap is super helpful against enemies with devistating special attacks. Try to stack Cripple with the Warrior’s (as I recall) Overwhelm for nice effect.
The Ranger’s Hunter’s Prowess, Pin, and Nature’s Balm are all favorites of mine, but are all situational.
I think that some of the best aspects of Monster’s Den are not about individual classes, but how different classes mesh together. Any game that has one “super class” that you can just bash about blindly is poorly designed, in my opinion. Congrats to Garin for making a game with nuance and many different game play options!
about 3 months ago
If you’re really serious about getting some deep opinions then we probably need a sandbox mode. Since the game feeling changes from level 10 or so, and again once you get a lot of power, quickness and status effect items as well as your passives built up, it’s too much trouble to test out the balance of very many team setups that may be great- but have some specific item or level requirements.
The most obvious problem has been mentioned. Healing is lacking, so not only are you almost obliged to take a cleric, that cleric is probably stuck in the healing role instead of being able to play around much with other skills unless you want to double up on a single class. The conjuror can work for healing… but outside of survival mode where aegis can make your shield wall near invincible it’s not very good. It also has by far the most boring passives. I think the summons need to START about as powerful as a fully passive boosted conjuror and from there maybe get 4% life+damage per level as one passive. The other passive would reduce power upkeep cost, a mechanic introduced to balance the fact your summons would be decent fighters with decent skillsets and not just weak meat shields (boring).
Other niche builds have a similar problem. If you want to be different… say… make a swordmage… there aren’t even enough other skills in the set to fill in the spaces since most are intelligence based. We’re not trying to do something absurd here… a skill pretty much says to try making a swordmage! Same for a spear-using ranger… you can barely come up with some skills to use as 4 skills are ranged only, when everything besides rain of arrows could have been written so as to work with a spear (pin, pierce, envenomed “weapon”). Of course that would leave 2 poison weapon skills, but I’d probably change rogue’s to a poison cloud bomb (AoE). Similar with a rogue… it has access to a bow, but 4 of its skills are short range. Adding insult to injury, only the ranger can use a quiver. The funny thing about this is the coup de grace is NOT only short range, which is actually the main advantage to using a bow in the first place (in tandem with a faster ranger’s pin), when my image of a coup de grace is a point blank shot or slash. Do you see my general complaint here? Giving classes different weapons is part of making classes different… but every weapon in that class should be relatively well supported. Possibilities are available and hinted at, but in practice I feel a lot of times I feel pidgeonholed into taking a few certain setups. Like, if I want to try something interesting, I’m still stuck hauling a cleric and mage type around unless I want to run into lots of trouble. And on that, another example… the wraith enemy… which singlehandledly almost forces you to take a mage as other enemies fall before your team. The gargoyle is also resistant, but lots of classes can get around it or at least maintain a stun and wear it down… whereas that wraith just keeps doing armor piercing attacks while holding poison and stun immunity while many parties can hardly touch them without some luck.
The overall point there is that variety is the spice of life… if you provide a skill as a niche that pretty much says… hey, try making a crossbow warrior! Well, it might not be optimal, but is it beyond just being just somewhat viable but actually at least generally good and variable? A crossbow warrior doesn’t need to rain arrows from the heavens like a ranger, but can it actually take advantage of being both heavily armored and ranged? Currently, not really- 5 skills are flagged melee and 1 shield. And as variety is the spice of life, if I take any party of 4 different classes, will I run into any severe trouble? The wraith issue and healing being pretty concentrated on a couple classes comes to mind there.
about 2 months ago
i love this game and have been playing sence it came out.
the majority of the skills in the game have some nitch to fill. but ive always had issues with the conjourers skills, every time i use any of the summons(except the wargolem) they seem to die quickly and i only would get use out of them if the casters speed was higher. i dont know how they are later in the game, as i never got there eather was killed repeatedly or wondered why i have a conjuor in my party in the 1st place.
another thing about the summons i didnt like is they are all melee 2 have spells and one is ment to be in melee but with out regen (i know your supposed to heal them to get there mana back up) it all just seems clunky not to mention only haveing 2 spots to choose from which i never found a good place for them unless i ran with 2-3.
ive always seen a combo in conjour/barb jossle/twister/charge it worked decently but if you try and use the shadows as temp targets for jossle they dont leave your stuck with a null spot.
i enjoy the “support” role the conjour is but it seems to lack
about 2 months ago
Hard to say really, I only know which skills I use ‘personally’. But my outfit is – 1 Warrior, 1 Rogue, 1 Mage and 1 Barbarian.
For the warrior, I use:
Power attack – When possible.
Shield Wall – Against big groups or in the presence of very strong enemies.
Inspire – For prospectfully long skirmishes or tough enemies, and when I don’t have enough power to cast Shield wall.
Cleave – Also when it’s conveniant
Resolve – To keep my warrior virtually impossible to take down.
For the Rogue, I use -
Cripple – To keep the faster enemies from doing damage as quickly as possible.
Flash Powder – For the use specified
Pierce defence – When I equip the bow, this can be useful for taking down a range of enemies which are heavily armoured.
Sneak Attack – Prefferably to target or get rid of enemies quickly which are on the back row or out of reach.
Create opening – To deal heavy damage to an enemy.
For the Mage, I use -
Electrical Storm – Usually to finish off enemies with low health, but with the added bonus that the rest get damaged.
Arcane Armour – To keep my mage alive for as long as possible.
Power Siphon – Not sure how to get the best effect out of it yet, but I couldn’t find use for any other spells.
For the Barbarian, I use -
Boast – To assist the rogue when making enemies pass their turn alot later, when I need to take them out premierly.
Charge – For the reason the ability is there.
Jostle – To swap positions with an ally in order to give me a different attack trajectory; so I can move to another position if I want to charge another enemy.
Dismember – To soften up strong enemies which inflict alot of damage, before they have a chance to attack me.
———————————————
Allthough, nobody can really say which abilities/spells are more useful than others, they can only document the ones they know how to use. I’m sure every spell/ability has some kind of use.
about 2 months ago
Well my line up is Rouge in top left, warrior top mid, ranger bottom left, and Mage Bottom Left, so I’ll just talk about those 4.
Generally, i focus more on the gear on what my characters are using very early, so i can mix the quickness around to pick out which moves i want to go first. I ended up with:
Quickness levels:
Warrior: 90
Mage: 80
Rouge: 70
Ranger: 67
This took a bit of a while to arrange, as i had to gather a lot of “of Speed” armor for the warrior and “of Accuracy” for the ranger. So now I’ll move onto skills.
Warrior:
Cleave is by far, the most important skill you’ll get, as long as your warrior is in the middle, he/she can dish out a crapload of damage.
Execute is decent but i prefer not to use it as much because its a waste of power.
Inspire is a must have, as I use it to boost my Mage and Ranger to do ridiculously high amounts of damage.
Defiance is also a very good skill, as then one can have their warrior tank, especially once the rouge starts upgrading their elusiveness abilities.
I don’t use shield wall or bloodlust, as I generally equip my warrior with a longsword and a “? parrying dagger of speed” to achieve the speed effect. Bloodlust doesn’t seem worth the trouble, and Adrenaline is like a smaller form of Inspire, so that goes to waste as well.
Overwhelm is a decent skill, which goes in hand with the quickness ability.
Overall, I believe that warrior is better than Barbarian.
RANGER——————————————–
Hail of Arrows is essential: Especially, once i combine Thief’s luck with it or if i have an accuracy bonus from my armor. (I try to keep my accuracy at least around 120% for my ranger. Yes I am an armor freak.)
Pierce is decent, as it starts out as one of your best skills.
I use Envenomed arrow quite a bit, compared to most people, especially on big boss fights where all i do is rack up poison damage.
Swiftness is useless for me, as I already outpace all of the creatures and bosses on Book of Dread. Hunter’s Prowess is only good on creatures.
Nature’s balm is very good, as i usually split my 3 points into intellect, dexterity, and endurance. And this offers constant healing with the anti-poison bonus. Trouble is that if you take 4 turns applying this to everyone, its a waste of power.
Force of Nature, Healing Lore, and Focus are bad skills, especially in higher up levels. Creature Lore was a bad passive skill, as I would generally kill monsters in two hits or so. Vitality was important for me, big time. 25% passive regen health was a biggie for me. Pin was decent, but i had my Mage do most of the stunning as she went second and chain linked coup de grace with my Rouge.
Mage—————————————————
Only 3 skills i ever used frequently were Electrical Storm, Cosmic Prison and Arcane Armor. Everything else was redundant due to either a large amount of passive power regen from armor or quickness of kills. Her passive skills were by far the best.
Rouge—————————————————
I would generally look for a pestilence blade to equip her with, or some other overpowered dagger.
Sneak Attack: Essential, let me hit anyone, anywhere, anytime.
Poison: Decent, especially on boss fights.
Create Opening: Useful, especially when fighting people with no armor, works well with Inspire.
Pierce Armor: Must have, great to use on dwarves and humans.
Coupe de Grace: Used in conjunction with Cosmic Prison, had no other use for it.
Everything else was useless.
The rouge had decent passive abilities, especially poisoncraft, which pretty much ensured a one hit kill on any normal enemy as my poison damage would just about equal the amount of damage I dealt with pestilence blade. elusiveness bothered me a lot though, as it started directing all of the attacks toward my warrior and mage.
So as for my line of attack
Warrior- Inspire
Mage- Electrical Storm
Rouge- Sneak Attack/Create opening on any character i feel would cause me the most trouble.
Ranger- Hail of Arrows (Usually, every single arrow hits due to accuracy bonus)
From there, i kill off most of the weak nonarmored units, including the boss, if i directed my sneak attack on him/her instead. This usually leaves me with 3 units, and then i take it easy from there.
about 2 months ago
Here’s what I use by class:
Rogue:
Coup de Grace
Warrior:
Cleave
Mage:
Electrical storm
Those are really the only three classes that I use, and those are the ones that you don’t start out with that I use.
about 1 month ago
My usual strategy:
— High quickness, at least 65. With 4 moves, I can usually take out 2 enemies before they can even strike.
— I use a lot of power moves so I try to get the Runed weapons/equipment.
— My strategy with my latest group (Mage/Rogue/Cleric/Warrior). Thieves Luck to increase accuracy, then Holy Light to decrease their accuracy. Then Mage uses enscorcelled blade and Warrior uses Overwhelm. By then, I’ve usually killed two enemies.
Mage – The best player.
- I use enscorcelled blade all the time. I equip him with a sword and let him hit 4 times, even the back row. I make sure he has plenty of power regen.
- Cosmic prison to stun
- Freeze to kill those which are resistant to physical damage.
- I have him on the front row. Despite low armor, doesn’t really make a difference.
Warrior
- I use overwhelm all the time. With leadership, pretty much I kill one the first turn.
- I give him a spear and he stands on the back row.
Rogue
- Use him for Thieves Luck so I don’t have to get a lot of weapons with accuracy. Accuracy is important to me as I use the moves that only use a percentage of hits (like enscorcelled blade.
Cleric
- Only use him for Holy Light (worth it’s weight in gold when it makes them miss) and
- Smite to stun those with 0 stun resistance.
- Rogue and Cleric are my bit players to Mage and Warrior who are the killers.
In my other group I have Mage/Mage/Ranger/Barbarian
— I have the Mages and Ranger use their multiple hit moves and will usually kill 1 enemy with 1 move.
— Ranger uses Force of Nature
— Barbarian uses Charge. I need the others to clear the front row for him to hit. It will take a big chunk of HP out of the enemy. I need him to hit Hydra and other bosses on the back row, otherwise you need to kill everyone on the first row before you can get to the boss on the back row. Him and the Mage are the only two I have that will take big chunks of HP from someone in the back row without disposing of the front row first.
— Conjuror, the worst and weakest character. Either that, or I don’t know how to use him. The summoned creatures are all weak.
My basic strategy is to hit first and hit with multiple moves (ensorcelled blade, overwhelm and Force of Nature). Additionally, I increase my accuracy and decrease theirs and stun them when I can while building up power. Power regen is very important since I use them a lot.
about 1 month ago
Well, I wish I had seen this earlier. I’m not sure how much help I can be a few months out, but I’ll give my opinions.
To contradict what many people have said, I don’t think any skills are “useless” or even “weak” (Except for the cleric’s Purify, which becomes useless once benediction reaches max). Every skill can be combined to make a unique and effective build, especially the less common ones.
Anyway, that’s just my comment on other people’s comments. Back on task: Several months ago on Kongregate, I’m made a post saying I would like to see more skill definition, or more of a skill “tree,” as it were. Never one to simply make a suggestion without offering a solution, I drew up said tree, but I never got around to posting it. So, here it is now:
As a preface, I basically took all the active skills and put them under a passive skill. The idea is that for every one point in a passive skill, you can pick one of the skills under it (any of them, not a pre-arranged “these ones before you get the one you really want” sort of deal). I tried to divide them with a sense of logic, but there were some gaps, and some areas that didn’t quite fit. Also, I couldn’t fill out the entire list, so I guess that means there’s room for improvement. But hey, if it helps, I’m glad it does.
Anyway, each class has four passive skills, and each passive skill has four active skills under it (Again, in no prearranged order).
Skills I couldn’t think up I left as “???”
***Warrior***
Leadership: 3% chance that successful attack by the warrior will cause a random ally to perform a bonus attack on the same target
-Inspire (15p): Increase all party members’ damage by 20% for the remainder of the battle.
-Rally (25p): Remove stun and all stat-reducing effects from target.
-???
-???
Armor Proficiency: 2% bonus to the Armor Rating gained from armor.
-Defiance (30p): User’s health will not be dropped below # health until user’s next turn. (based on endurance)
-Resolve (40p): User recovers # health (based on endurance)
-Shield wall (60p): [requires shield] User gains +25% armor resistance and is the sole target of attacks until his next turn. Can only be used in the front row. Other members may still take damage from area attacks.
-???
???
-Power attack (30p): Melee attack at 130% damage.
-Cleave (60p): Melee attack at 100% damage to all targets in melee range.
-Overwhelm (75p): Melee attack at 100% damage. If the warrior’s quickness is higher than target’s quickness, the warrior will perform two bonus attacks on the same target.
-Execute (*): Melee attack at 100% damage. Uses all the warrior’s remaining power as a percentage chance to kill the target outright.
???
-Adrenaline (25p): user gains immunity to stun and 30% bonus damage for the remainder of the battle.
-Blood lust (30p): Melee attack at 110% damage. If the attack kills the target, the warrior gains 50 power.
-???
-???
***Cleric***
Wrath: 3% chance that the Smite and Litany of Pain spells will stun the target.
-Smite (30p): Ranged magic attack for #. Does 200% damage to undead. [scales with intelligence]
-Litany of pain (55p): Infilcts # magical damage to all enemies. [scales with intelligence]
-Anoint (30p): Target party member deals 175% normal damage on next attack.
-???
Benediction: 4% chance that Purify or Purge will remove all negative effects from the target.
-Purify (25p): Removes curse, poison, and wither(no health or energy regen) from the target.
-Purge (50p): Removes curse, poison, and wither(no health or energy regen) from the party
-Holy light (40p) reduce all enemies’ accuracy by 30% for the remainder of the battle. Deals slight damage to Undead. Always hits.
-Zeal (35p): Target gains 200% health and energy regen for the next round and gains stun immunity for the remainder of the battle.
Restoration: Increases the amount of health restored by 2%
-Heal (25p): Restore # health to one member of the party. [scales with intelligence]
-Heal all (60p): Restore # health to all members of the party. [scales with intelligence]
-Revive (75p): Revive a fallen party member with # health. [scales with intelligence]
-Living water (55p): Gives small health regeneration for the remainder of the battle. [OR]: (50p) Gives large health regeneration for three turns. [scales with intelligence]
Chivalry: 1% chance that party members will suffer 50% less damage from an attack. [OR]: 2% (or 3% or 4%) chance that the Cleric will redirect damage to himself for party members that are below half health if the Cleric is above half health.
-Shield of faith (55p): Caster takes no damage until his next turn. Caster receives no power at the beginning of his next turn.
-Fervor (60p): Melee attack at 200% damage.
-???
-???
***Mage***
Spell mastery: 1% chance that no power cost will be deducted when using a power.
-Freeze (25p): Ranged magic attack for # damage. 25% chance to stun the target. [scales with intelligence]
-Fireball (35p): Ranged magic atack for # damage. Adjacent squares take reduced damage. [scales with intelligence]
-Electrical storm (55p): Inflict # magical damage to all enemies. [scales with intelligence]
-???
Warding: 1% chance that incoming damage will be nullified at the cost of 10 power.
-Arcane armor (25p): Caster gains an additional 40% damage resistance for the remainder of the battle.
-Flickering flame (25p): Target gains 100% damage reflection for the remainder of the battle.
-Invisibility (30p) Target may not directly be attacked until his next turn.
-Cosmic prison (30p): Does slight magical damage. Target is stunned and gains 40% damage resistance until his next turn (Damage resistance still applies if stun is resisted). Does not miss. [scales with intelligence]
???
-Ensorcelled blade (75p): [Requires melee weapon] Four ranged melee attacks at 100% damage. Attacks are made at 75% of current accuracy.
-Incinerate (25p): Inflicts # magical damage to a single target in melee range.
-???
-???
Scribing: Reduce the cost of powers by 2% (or 1%) [OR] Add 2 points to maximun energy
-Siphon (20p): Drain up to 30 energy from a single target
-Power siphon (50p): Drain up to 20 power from each enemy.
-Frantic Pact (0p): The Mage recovers all energy, but loses half (or a quarter) of his health.
-???
***Ranger***
Creature lore: 2% chance on attack to decrease the enemy’s damage resistance by 40% for the remainder of the battle. (This may reduce damage resistance below zero)
-Hunter’s prowess (30p): Weapon attack for slight damage increase with a +10% percent chance to instantly kill the target. Does double damage to creatures.
-Force of Nature (55p: Three melee attacks at 100% damage on a single target at 60% current accuracy. Ignores armor.
-Withering Strike (40p): Weapon attack for 110% damage. Target becomes withered (no health or energy regeneration).
-???
Marksmanship: Increase accuracy 1% for every point
-Pierce (30p): Ranged attack at 100% damage. Hits up to two targets in a vertical line.
-Pin (40p): Ranged attack at 75% damage. Stuns the target.
-Rain of arrows (60p): Two ranged attack made at 50% damage on all enemies. Attacks are made at 70% of current accuracy.
-???
Herb Lore: Increases the effect of healing and poison by 1%
-Nature’s balm (35p): Grants target poison immunity and small health regeneration per turn for the remainder of the battle. [scales with intelligence]
-Healing lore (30p): Restore # health to one party member. Cures poison. [scales with intelligence]
-Envenomed arrow (30p): Ranged attack at 100% damage. Applies 4 poison damage. [scales with intelligence]
-???
Vitality: 1% of maxamum health is added to base health regeneration.
-Swiftness (30p): All party members gain+20 to quickness for the remainder of the battle.
-Focus (0p): Recover 25 power.
-???
-???
***Rogue***
Poisoncraft: 2% of damage caused by weapon attacks is added to the target as poison.
-Poison (20p): Weapon attack at 100% damage. Applies # poison damage. [scales with intelligence]
-Sap Power (40p): Melee attack for 50% damage. Reduces target’s power by 75.
-???
-???
Elusivness: 3% chance that enemies will not directly target the Rogue if other targets are available. The Rouge can still be a secondary target of an area attack directed at someone else.
-Hide (20p): User may not be the target of direct attacks until his next turn. User also receives a 200% damage bonus to his next attack.
-Sneak attack (30p): Melee attack on any target at 120% damage.
-Preparation (30p): Decreses user’s speed to zero for the next turn. 30% (or 50%) chance to counterattack enemy attacks.
-???
???
-Pierce defences (30p): Weapon attack at 110% damage. Ignores target’s armor.
-Cripple (25p): Weapon attack for a maximum of 50% damage. This attack cannot kill the target. If the attack is successful, the target’s Quickness is reduced to zero for the remainder of the battle.
-Coup de grace (30p): Weapon attack that instantly kills a stunned enemy.
-Cold blood (50p): Melee attack at 25% damage. 75% chance to stun any target. Does not miss.
???
-Create opening (40p): Melee attack at 75% damage. If it hits, a random ally performs a bonus weapon attack on the same target.
-Flash powder (40p): Reduces the accuracy of a target in melee range by 50% for the remainder of the battle. 50% chance to stun. Does not miss.
-Thief’s Luck (20p): All members of the party gain +30 to accuracy for the remainder of the battle.
-???
***Barbarian***
Brutality: 2% chance that an attack made by the Barbarian will cause 50% additional damage.
-Whirlwind (65p): Melee attack at 100% damage. A lesser attack is made on every enemy adjacent to the target.
-Charge (35p): Melee attack at 160% damage. Attack has a +50% chance to stun the target. Target must be directly ahead and must have an empty vertical space between the user and the target.
-???
-???
Vengence: 4% chance when damage is received that damage inflicted next turn increases by 30%.
-Reckless fury (20p): Increases damage dealth by 150%, but reduces damage resistance by 50 (This can take damage resistance below zero). Lasts for the remainder of the battle.
-Enrage (0p) If the Barbarian takes damage before his next turn, his power is completely restored.
-Intimidate (70p): Enemies will prefer to attack targets other than the user for the remainder of the combat. In addition, user’s quickness is increased by 10
-Berzerker’s Rush (40p): Inflicts 10% of maximum health to the user (will not kill the user). 150% damage to the target. Pushes the target to the back line. (If there is another enemy there, that enemy receives 75% damage)
???
-Pulverize (55p): Melee attack at 120% damage. Reduces the target’s damage resistance by 20 for the remainder of the battle (This will not take damage resistance below zero).
-Dismember (50p): Melee attack at 100% damage. Reduces the target’s damage by 30% for the remainder of the battle.
-Last Stand (40p): May only be used when below 20% health. Melee attack at 200% damage and +20% chance to kill the target instantly.
-???
Brawler: Adds 5% damage to unarmed attacks
-Jostle (10p): Swap position with target ally or empty square.
-Boast (30p): Targets any enemy. Does not miss. Target receives a penalty to Quickness (up to 20) for the remainder of the battle. In addition, a random ally performs a bonus weapon attack on the target.
-Pummel (60p): Four attacks at 50% damage. Attacks are made at 80% of current accuracy. If any attacks are successful, 50% chance to stun target. If the stun fails, the attack reduces the target’s stun resistance by 5% cumulative. (If the stun is resisted, the stun resistance is not reduced.)(Must be unarmed)
-???
***Conjuror***
Augment strength: 2% extra damage for summoned creatures’ attacks.
-Dire wolf (30p): Summon a Dire Wolf to an empty square on your side of the battlefield. Dire wolves are expendable close range fighters.
-War golem (60p): Summon a Wargolem to an empty square on your side of the battlefield. Wargolems are heavily armored and ideal for forming a protective line.
-Living Sword (60p): Summons a Living Sword to an empty square on your side of the battlefield. Living Swords have high damage but low health and defense.
-???
Augment health: 2% extra health for summoned creatures.
-Manasprite (50p): Summon a Manasprite to an empty square on your side of the battlefield. Manasprites are weak fighters, but can restore mana to your party.
-Bloodsprite (50p): Summon a Bloodsprite to an empty square on your side of the battlefield. Bloodsprites are weak fighters, but can heal your party.
-Refresh Energies (25p) Restore # health and 50 power to a friendly summoned creature. Removes poison and curse effects. [scales with intelligence]
-???
Channeling: Increase energy regeneration by 2%
-Call soul (75p): Revives a fallen party member with full health but no power.
-Wall of Shadows (30p): Summon a Shadow to every empty square on your side of the battlefield. Shadows act as decoys, and can curse the enemy or remove curses from your party.
-Eldritch Aegis (40p): Increases the resistance of all party members by 15% for the remainder of the battle.
-???
???
-Vortex (40p): Summon a whirlwind to attack any single enemy, cuasing # damage and knocking him into an adjacent empty square. If there are no adjacent empty squares, the whirlwind dissipates immediately but inflicts an additional 20% damage.
-Banish (20p): Instantly destroy a summoned enemy creature.
-Teleport (50p): Swap the target location with another location on the same side of the battlefield (I.E.: can swap allies with other allies or enemies with other enemies, or with an empty square)
-???
about 1 month ago
This is a little late, but I may as well. Book of Dread was a lot of fun.
In terms of party builds, I always thought Rogue, Warrior, Ranger, and Cleric was the best.
Rogue:
Best skills: Sneak Attack, Poison, Pierce Defences, Poisoncraft
I omitted the “worst skills” section because, in all practical senses, they completely fail to matter. The fact that daggers work off of two offensive stats, and that both stats are automatically raised every time you clear a floor, means that the Rogue gains more and more offensive momentum as you move on. This stacks with Poisoncraft. Buy Sneak Attack, put the rest of the points in Poisoncraft; as your Rogue starts pulling ahead of everyone else, Poisoncraft starts making more and more of a difference.
Furthermore, the further in the game you get, the more energy regen is available. Late-game, it’s easy to get enough energy regen to make the Rogue abilities completely trivial, meaning that for all intents and purposes the Rogue becomes a far-range character. And In infinite mode, NOTHING in the game compares to the damage a Rogue built this way can do. It’s absurd. It can’t heal, tank, kill multiple enemies, or take above average amounts of damage, but that’s what the rest of the party is for.
Daggers are the entire point of a Rogue. Only use anything else if it’s the first level.
Warrior:
Best skills:
Inspire, Cleave, Overwhelm
Worst skills: Defiance, Execute, Resolve
The Warrior is designed here to complement the other two offensive characters. Inspire is important for making the Rogue’s late-game attacks instant kills and for making it easier for Hail of Arrows to kill chaff. Cleave helps with front-row chaff, especially after Hail of Arrows. Overwhelm is for bosses or anything that needs to die Right Now; it’s fairly easy, late-game, to get enough +Speed gear to have a Warrior with a parrying dagger able to use it on anything threatening, and +Speed also helps with Inspire.
The Warrior *can* tank; the problem is, once you pass a certain point in the game, tanking isn’t necessary. The Cleric will get to the point where healing every turn is perfectly practical; your tanking ability therefore doesn’t gain you much and comes at the expense of damage, which means you *take* more damage as well.
Swords are the most useful, because they’re the lightest. If you can’t use Overwhelm anyway, though, the others aren’t bad.
Ranger:
Best skills: Hail of Arrows, Pierce, Swiftness
Worst skills: Nature’s Balm, Healing Lore, Force of Nature
The Ranger is additional damage until you can get enough +Energy regen and +Accuracy gear, ideally combined with some of the +energy on battle end equipment. When Hail of Arrows reaches a certain threshold with those stats, it becomes an amazing tool for mowing down groups, especially combined with Inspire, Anoint (which, IIRC, does work for every hit of Hail of Arrows on the enemy party), Cleave, and Sneak Attack.
Aside from that, Pierce is great for general damage. Hunter’s Prowess is good for when that extra bit of damage matters, and turns the Hunter into a Rogue against Beasts. Swiftness sets up for Overwhelm, and in some situations can be useful for killing something before it hits you, thanks to the higher damage capability of the Rogue and Warrior.
Force of Nature might be good if not for the fact it invalidates Pierce and Hail of Arrows, the most useful skills in the Ranger skill set. Using a Ranger for it leaves them with nothing else; you may as well just do the magical version with a Mage, who isn’t that much less durable.
Bows, of course.
Cleric
Best skills: Heal, Heal All, Revive, Anoint
Worst skills: Purify, Shield of Faith
Healbot. Anoint exists to make Hail of Arrows and Cleave amazing, and to allow the rogue to OHKO any boss of note. Smite is notable for being a decent source of magical damage, but since the Cleric is one of the few characters leveling up three stats (you want a normal attack worth *something*), it’s not astounding even against undead.
The two “worst skills” deserve note. Purify is pointless – Heal All cures poison anyway. Curses aren’t threatening enough. +Poison Resist is good against Medusa, but Medusa is one specific boss you may not run into more than once, and you want to blitz her anyway. Shield of Faith is in the running for “worst skill in the game”; sure, if you’re up against something that can only hit the front row, and everyone else is in the back row, then it might be useful. But it’s a panic button that makes your healer unavailable and worthless afterward. NOT GOOD.
Maces, obviously.
The rest of the classes suffer in comparison.
Mage? Worse Ranger. He’s ranged artillery and anti-group, but his spells grow in damage too slowly for their cost and he has durability woes. Ensorcelled Blade mades his damage impressive – at the cost of making him a Warrior with a worse version of Overwhelm, much lower durability, no Inspire, no Cleave, and a normal attack that’s off-stat in exchange for slightly more damage and some crowd control.
Barbarian? Worse Warrior. Exchanges Inspire for debuffs (which don’t survive the enemy dying), more damage (at the cost of conditions which make it difficult to use or survive using), and a worse version of Cleave (which, in exchange, can hit back row sometimes). Charge could have potential if it could hit anything provided there’s one row between the user and target if not for the fact the Barbarian has to be in the same column.
Conjuror? Worse Cleric. They have party healing and party energy restoration, but they can’t do it on short notice, and the healing is both lower than the Cleric’s and unable to be boosted by Censers. Their summons would be useful for damage and tanking if not for the fact you can only have two of them at a time, and at least one of those should be a bloodsprite. Eldritch Aegis is quite good, Banish has its uses, and Vortex works well, but they just can’t justify their use.
So, yeah. The classes can’t really be tiered, because which ones you use depend on your party; I’d say Rogues are the best, but Rogue/Rogue/Rogue/Rogue isn’t a good party. But Rogue, Warrior, Ranger, and Cleric are each the best at their given role.
about 1 month ago
@Particleman, I’ve skim read your plan, and so far, I really like it. Going through it in more detail now, to see if I can help with the gaps a little…
about 1 month ago
I wrote what i though of all the classes and in what situation I used them (in case I use them in an interesting way or the opposite, that would make my comment for that class totally worthless)
Warrior : used this one as tank (didn’t really care about damage)
— Best skills —
Resolve : with high endurance you end up healing half of your hp with low cost
Armor Proficiency : Not sur what armor did but the more the better
— Ok skills —
Inspire : Only for long fights
Cleric : Also used as tank (so no censer unfortunately)
— Best Skills —
Heal All : That’s what a cleric is for, however i didn’t used ceser so i though it didn’t heal much
Fervor : Massive damages
Anoint : with high speed it can buff Lightning storm for MAJOR damages and quick disposure
Shield of Faith : Worst at start because of high cost, Best at end because it gives anti-melee for 1 round and you get % back when fight ends
— Ok Skills —
Litany of Pain : Med damages on all enemies
— Bad Skills —
Smite : unless you are against undead or you have lot of Wrath i think it doesn’t deal enough damage
Wrath : didn’t use smite
Mage : Main dps
— Bestest Skill —
Lightning Storm : high damage on all enemies
– Best skills —
Freeze : high damage on 1 enemy with low cost
Fireball : bastard child from Freeze and Lightning storm (nice damages on small area with small cost)
— Ok skills —
Cosmic prison : 100% stun but damage resist
— Bad skills —
Arcane Armor : My mage didn’t get hit that much, so i never ended up using
Invisibility : see Arcane Armor
Incinerate : Mage at melee range is a bad idea
Ranger : dps, often used with stun (dunno why… just happened to be that way)
— Best Skills —
Hail of Arrows : Nice dps with a bit of boost (137%) you get 100% accuracy also you always end up stunning/insta-killing/Creature Loring(?) at least 1 guy. However the fact that poison effect is splitted by 12 makes it a bit sad.
Creature Lore : 40% (at least) more damage is neat.
— Ok Skills —
Pin : monsters tends to get high stun resist and it barely worked for me (bad luck i guess)
Hunter’s Prowess : Really nice about 1 floor out of 5 (or 6?)
Pierce : Attack 2 monster with low cost
— Bad Skills —
Focus : fight must be 4-5 round long for it to be worth anything
Swiftness : Quickness is already good end-game, no need for boost
Rogue : also dps, usualy with poison on hit
— Best skills —
Pierce Defenses : 1-hit gargoyles, also nice for others high def monsters, sometime I uses it only for 10% added damage to finish enemy.
Create Opening : Major Damages
Poisoncraft : added weapon damages is nice
— Good Skills —
Poison : always killed legendary monsters that way always like additional poison damage for big monsters or killing with low cost. However, you need long battles for it to worth anything
Thief’s luck : 100 accuracy for everyone (also near 100% with hail of arrows or other multi hit attacks)
— Bad skills —
Flash Powder (other than for Minotaur or medusa) only 1 target, only 50% stun
***** Skills Needed *****
AoE : Poison Aoe or even Flash Powder with Fireball’s range would be good, This class is one of the 2 the doesn’t have AoE
Barbarian : never used so i can’t really comment
Conjuror : Used this one as dps also reviver (when tank is warrior)
— Best Skills —
Wall of shadows : low cost for 2 guys that can remove curse and tank 1 hit
Vortex : massive damage on 1 unit
— Ok skills —
Call Soul : costs too much to be really useful
Wargolem : nice tank, low damage output
Banish : Good against summons and morphers
Eldritch shield : 15% less damage is always nice
— Bad skill —
Manasprite : basic regen is enough
Bloodsprite : cost too much power for healing
Refresh energy : summoning a new one is nearly as efficient
Augment strength/health : didn’t see much difference (maybe it’s only an impression though)
about 4 weeks ago
I’m a bit late to the party but as an avid MDen fan and player, I wanted to give my 2cents having read one or two posts I disagreed with.
Someone on the first page stated that Mages Power Siphon was relatively useless. On the contrary, you can quite easily turn the tide of extremely tricky fights with it beit regular dungeon monsters, bosses and most legendary creatures.
A hefty chunk of ranged orientated Monsters can be reduced to constantly ‘Passing’ their turn purely because they cannot attack without Power, so with a Mage Casting PSiphon each turn pretty much renders X amount of opponents useless and easily picked off even by low/non-DPS orientated players. I can quite happily chop down a Hydra, for example, because Hydra Heads do NOTHING with no Power and the Hydra itself only uses power to summon more heads if one dies. This reduces an entire legendary creature into a case of sitting back and ranging it to death with little to no damage to your party once you get to the stage where they have to pass for power.
This works on Gorgons too, with tact – If you have a meatshield in front row then reducing it’s Power to 0 means it cannot annoy you with constant AoE Stun & Poison but will simply use regular melee attacks on your meatshield while you pummel it to death.
So no, Power Siphon is not a waste – I would be very upset if some class out there was not gifted with the tactical choice of swapping out it’s DPS for the sake of opponent power management when the player chooses to take that route.
Thats Power Siphon out of the way so I’ll give some more general ideas and suggestions.
Summoner is hit and miss. I enjoyed the fact that I could fill up the two remaining squares with additional temporary party members but ultimately they are all weak, even fully buffed, and the Summoner’s own damage is little to none making it a very lucklustre choice. I would still love to see a Summoner/Necromancer type Class available, however, where Summoning is an option but not an entire base of it’s ability. Think Diablo 2 Necromancer where it’s about buffing/debuffing/draining with summonables being optional support and you get the idea.
Having one choice for a Healer is a bit depressing. I’ve not had the chance to bother trying a damage dealing Cleric but I always have one in the group purely as it’s the only real healer.
Hunter Heals are absolutely worthless bar Nature’s Balm which is a great ability. On the note of Hunters (This includes Mages), it’s somewhat depressing when a skill in the Tree emphasises weapons that are unsuiting to a Class. As someone has said before, the last place you want a Mage (Even a Hunter) is in the frontline – Spears are an exception but no melee weapons really live up to it for any ranged class in MD2 when the entire tree emphasises other weapons / abilities or formation placement.
Just as an example, I hit in arounds level 125 at one stage so all my characters were maxed out, skillwise – The hunter had 1020+ HP Regen through gear and skill and yet it could still die in one hit from certain enemies. Now, why would I want it in the frontline taking hits from melee on top of that even if it used to regenerate most if not all HP per turn?
Poisons, Vampirics and Reflection can be heavily emphasised by the group to do most of the players work for them. It’d be nice to maybe reduce to overall benefit of said abilities via gear but maybe make it so certain classes can base their skills around it to at least make it less of an all round choice and one more tactical per character.
Another example of this – Arcane Armor for Mages – Why would you take a turn to cast it for -40% Damage Reduction when having Vampiric gear and using AoE/Electric Storm on a full set of Monsters is a guaranteed 100% heal?
You get the idea.
Either way, I am absolutely gagging to get a shot at the upcoming game!
about 4 weeks ago
Oh aye, almost totally forgot.
Regarding Mages “Invisibility”, notice a few people mentioned they found little use for it. Initially I didn’t think much of it either as I assumed it was Mage Exclusive until one day I misclicked it onto a different character.
The ability to ‘Hide’ a friendly Character until their next turn is quite a valuable asset. To give an example, Minotaur. It’s very annoying knowing their ‘Labyrinth’ ability will randomly reshuffle your formation. There’s been many times my Mage / Cleric / Hunter or something I’d rather have at the back row ends up alone in the front row while my meatshield Warrior is sent to the back… Well then, cast Invisibility on them, problem solved! Assuming the character is faster than the Warrior, which they likely are, the Warrior can then continue to use ShieldWall, Melee can DPS as per usual and the Invisible target can still perform whatever they want on their turn while the Mage keeps them safe.
I’d really like to see it make a return in MD:Godfall as it’s another spell that can be put to good tactical use by the player to struce up the fight.
about 1 week ago
While I have played all dungeons, and in all formats, after the first couple of times through to the end, the only way to play that I find challenging is the Den of Corruption, Extreme, Hardcore, Tactical, Attrition – in other words, as hard as possible. I have made it through the end on occasion by skipping some battles, but am now looking to score a “perfect game.” No Deaths, no Altars, just retreating to the prior level for a free heal.
Given that, the lineup must include a conjurer for Mana. The only lineup I can succeed with consistently is Warrior, Cleric, Ranger, Conjurer. Here are the spells I find useful given these restrictions. If I don’t specifically mention the first three given skills, that doesn’t mean they aren’t important, but I found the importance too obvious to note..
Warrior
Overwhelm – Only effective weapon against leaders on each level, as good as an “execute” for most monsters. Obviously, must wait for speedier weapons/armor.
Adrenaline – can be used in conjunction with Ovewhelm.
Blood Lust – Crucial for Mana Preservation
Defiance – Often, the only thing that can save the battle with the leaders.
Cleric
Purify – Cheap, and the only thing that makes the creature level and Shaman curses survivable.
Heal All — Rarely use – generally only as response to Smaug’s breath.
Blinding – Good, especially with orc Savages and trolls, some benefit for severely wounded undead.
Ranger
Pin – Saves the early round
Poison – Only easy way to prevail on Corruptor, the major monsters as well.
Natures Balm – combined heal and poison immunity make it well worth it.
Pierce – especially with Orc champions and orc shamans
Refresh – self explanatory, but crucial when no attrition.
Conjurer
Mana sprite – again, essential with attrition mode.
Banish – Obviously key to cult and Corruptor battles.
refresh – helps especially with recharging Mana in this mode.
Briefly, when not running in full attrition mode, I found the following useful in addition
Conjurer
WarGolem – Great in Fall of Telluride – not some much in dungeon.
Rogue
Siphon
Pierce Defences
Coup De Grace – especially with a crossbow, with a fast ranger
Mage
Siphon – great against cultists, major monsters
Cosmic Prison